As I write this Colo Colo fans are making their way to Plaza Italia to celebrate being the Primera División Clasura Champions 2009. Buses are full to bursting point. Arms, legs and flags are vying for space to hang out the windows. The stores on my street have closed early and a helicopter is flying back and forth keeping an eye on proceedings. The obligatory car horns are being played with finesse and the beer bellied, tattooed hinchas are in full voice.Fans of Los Albos are quite accustomed to such victory celebrations. In this decade alone, they have been champions seven times. It should be noted that the Chilean league has two seasons per year called the Apertura (Opening) and Clausura (Closing). It should also be noted that this is how it's done in most of Latin America. Therefore some countries have two champions per year. Some countries have a play-off between Apertura and Clausura winners to have an ultimate champion. Colo Colo have just won the Clausura. Confused? Well, wait! I haven't got to the ridiculous part yet.
In the Chilean First Division there are 18 teams. Everybody plays each other once, not home and away like a normal league. After that, the top eight teams play each other in a mini knockout tournament which is two-legged (home and away). Eventually you are left with two teams to battle it out over two games to be the 'bi-annual' champion.
So, what's the problem? Well, Colo Colo (which is one-eighth owned by Piñera, by the way) actually finished fourth in the league with 28 points. First place was held by Universidad Católica with 38 points. As it turned out, it was these two teams which battled for the title in a two legged play-off. The second of which was this evening.
Colo Colo finished fourth in the league, but went on to be crowned champions. At first, this didn't sit well with me. Then I realised: Hey, this is Chile. This is the country where you don't strive to be the best. This is the country where just doing the bare minimum is rewarded.
Take the marking system here for example. For some bizarre reason, schools use a base number of 7. Where we (the rest of the world) would use a base of 10, students are given a pass by getting a 4/7. It is also not possible to get a 0/7. A zero would be marked as 1/7. I even worked in an institute which employed this crazy system.
So, why this ridiculous marking system? Well, firstly, a Chilean will never give 100% to anything he does. Why bother when minimum effort is enough and not frowned upon. The maximum you can expect from a Chilean is 70% effort. 7/10 therefore became the new maximum and henceforth exams were marked out of seven.
Of course, one could argue that moving the maximum like this would end up having a new maximum reconfigured every decade or so. Maybe so, but nobody yet has been able to supply me with a logical explanation as to why students are marked out of seven.
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26 comments:
What you call the "rest of the world" it's just a few countries. France uses a base of 20. The US uses letters (ABCDEF). Denmark uses -3 to 12. Bulgaria 2-6 (to just mention a few).
That we have 10 fingers doesn't imply much, humans can go beyond that. Looks like you didn't give a 100% in your research for this post ;)
A base of 20 is the same as a base of 10. The US system of letter grades is based on percentages which, guess what, is a base of 10!! Did you get a 2/7 in maths at school?
Bulgaria???
Of course having ten fingers has everything to do with it. That's why decimalisation is so prevalent in the world. Yes, I know the US still uses the imperial system to measure things.
I know Chileans are way behind on the evolutionary path with regards to intelligence but you do have ten fingers, right? Maybe you don't. I should look a little closer.
Yet, you still cannot tell me why the imbecilic system of seven is used here.
Ideas, John Paul?
Shark: You say 10=20, well, interesting... "US Grades are based on percentages", have you even attended a US School or University? Doesn't look like. You disdain any country outside your little world (have you ever met a Bulgarian? I don't think so). And you think that insults are a valid and smart way of debate.
Sorry man, but I don't have time for retarded pseudo-intellectual bloggers with superiority complex. I'm out of here.
довиждане
I would like to know how the letter system is based on percentages. Do the use 10 letters? I´ve never seen someone geting a J in a test, at least on tv. xD
Anyway, I wanted to say that I read all your complains about Chile, Shark, but I don´t take it personally, and I don´t see any reason for anyone to do so. It´s your opinion and you´re entitled to have one, same as anyone else. To me, critics and praises are just personal opinions, and affect me in the same way, es decir, en nada ^^
I was researching about the origin of the 7/7 system, and can´t find an answer yet.
*the=they
Ah, y Juan Pablo, si se cree la raja el wn, da lo mismo, akienli xD
Marmo: I expected more from you. The letter system is popular all over the world and it varies slightly from territory to territory.
For example, if a student scores between 85% and 100%, that student is given an A. A mark of 95% might be stated as an A+. Between 70% and 84% may be stated as a B and so on. The lowest grade being an F or an NG (No Grade)
Letter grades, all based on percentages.
I love your country, Marmo. It's beautiful. I just think it would be better without Chileans.
Don't worry about Juan-Pablo. He's just a bitter non-native English teacher that feels threatened by the superior product native English teachers have to offer.
Marmo, the letter system in the US (or at least the majority of the US) uses different percentages than those Shark gave. 100-90% is an A, 89-80% B, 79-70% C, 69-60% D and 59% or below F. D and F are failing grades, and within each letter there can be pluses and minuses (usually 87 or above B+, 83 or below B-), although that depends on your professor.
Shark, honestly I thought this was a poor post. Usually I agree with the substance of your criticism if not always with the extent to which you find something objectionable or the way you express it, and I enjoyed the first part about how silly it is that the 4th place team can be crowned champion. But the end about "well Chileans never give 100% and that is related to their random grading system" just seems to me like a poorly-connected effort to get some Chilean bashing in rather than a relevant point about how society accepts and even encourages mediocrity.
I'm not trying to say you shouldn't write what you want, just didn't happen to like this post as much as others.
Juan Pablo, ABCDF, no E. So they use five letters which I guess has some sort of relevance to this whole 10 argument. Not really sure.
Marmo, Emily explained the letter system although sometimes in certain schools they have scrapped that system entirely and use percentages which should be self-explanatory.
Shark, I'm with Emily on this one. I don't think your argument about how Chile came to use the seven numbers has any merit. It is a culture of mediocrity. People cheat on tests too. Shocker.
"The maximum you can expect from a Chilean is 70% effort. 7/10 therefore became the new maximum and henceforth exams were marked out of seven."
Someone sat you down and explained that? It sounds to me like you got your toes stepped on this morning and you got pissy. Typical gringo. Go do some real research.
Nadya, do you realize that you undermine your entire comment with the following phrase?
"It sounds to me like you got your toes stepped on this morning and you got pissy. Typical gringo."
Makes it sound like Shark stepped on YOUR toes - it's just not a gringo thing to get annoyed and vent. And I say that because I agreed with everything else you said, but someone who wants to disagree is going to use that one phrase to refute the validity of your entire comment.
I agree with most of the comments here: I'm grading the essays of my Chilean university students at the moment, and applying the 1 -7 system for the first time; I don't find it any less arbitrary than the letter system in the US (where I graded papers for two years) or the percentage system in schools in the UK and Ireland (where I grew up). Or, for that matter, the university degree system in the UK: 1st (over 70%), 2:1 (between 60% and 70%), 2:2 (50% to 60%) and 3rd class honours. It all makes for some interesting mathematical somersaults on CVs... Joanna
Emily: I was only giving examples of the percentages to illustrate Marmo's understanding. They vary from country to country like I said.
Everybody: Do you want me to draw you a picture?
There are not 10 letters in the grading system. A letter represents a band of scores you achieved. To get into that band you were given a percentage. Percentages are a base of 10 (Well, 100 if you want to be very literal).
Emily (again): I was being extremely facetious when I linked the way Chileans put minimum effort (tell me that they don't!)into what they do and the how 70% is the maximum mark they can achieve. Nobody has yet explained to me why it is 7.
Nadya: I don't think I'm a typical Gringo. Most Gringos I know are very tolerant of, and patient with, Chileans. I, on the other hand, am not.
Emily (yet again!): I happen to think this was a very good post.
straightens imaginary tie, feigns nonchalance and stomps off
Mmmm I get it, A, B, C, etc. But the same could be said about Chilean qualifications, if B, for example, goes from 70% to 84%, it just seems to be proportional fractions of 100 and could be explained the same way.
The system Emily explains makes more sense to me, in terms of percentages, at least.
And Shark, don´t expect too much from me, remember, I´m also a moronic/stoopid/lazy Chilean, xD but I try to learn from any source I can. As I said before, all opinions are subjetive to me, and I respect the same those that says my country sucks, and those that says my country is a little piece of heaven.
Anyway, Shark´s posts (bitter as they are sometimes) still are good reading material to me.
Thanks Emily for the explanation!
Aún no encuentro información respecto al origen de la escala de siete notas en las calificaciones chilenas.
Emily, So glad I found this blog. First, I get to watch as this Shark uses his bullying to attack his readers. Nice technique, might I add. Bound to get loads of readers. Then you criticize my comment which wasn't an argument so much as it was an assumption. I could be wrong.
Marmo, I would not be so quick to call yourself a moronic Chilean. I would also not be so accepting of people's opinions, so I admire that. That's something I haven't been able to achieve yet in this life.
Shark, Interesting. You are a gringo, who lives in Chile, apparently teaches English, has a blog, and dislikes Chileans and things that Chileans do. Not typical. Not at all. I didn't just see that on the first dozen blogs I looked at today. Perhaps you could answer a question for me. Are you also here for a Chilean partner? If the answer is yes then you are like 95% of the gringos who come to Chile. Welcome.
Nadya, actually I don´t consider myself a moron, but I used one of the many adjetives Mr Shark uses with Chileans, I´m a Chilean, so...
I don´t get so affected with those words, and I don´t feel angry with him using them about my fellow Chileans or my country; it´s his opinion, and personally, I think being sad for those comments is as awkward as being happy every time a foreigner says "how great is Chile" xD, again it´s a personal opinion; the words have the power the listener/reader gives them.
Many of this blogs have really interesting topics, and as a Chilean, is interesting to see my country through foreigners eyes, and also know a little more about people willing to leave their home countries and have a life in a new one. Be sure to check http://cachandochile.wordpress.com/, that one has many links to other expat blogs.
This afternoon I asked a teacher about the 7 system and he didn´t have a clue. No one knows! I give up, until I find a reliable source
From the online bible: Wikipedia--
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grade_(education)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_grading_in_Chile
You can see here that there is every kind of grading scale under the sun. Grading systems are all really based on percentages, underneath it all. I don't think there is anything inherently non-sensical or mediocre about a system of 7. All you have to know is what percentage the number stands for. In the US your percentage is converted into a 5 letter system, more if you count plus and minus (which would make 12-F has no plus or minus, A has no plus--for the most part), which is then assigned a value on a scale of 1-4 for gpa purposes--which seems kind of confusing. I think this is a case of: whatever system you were educated under will make the most sense.
Annje, (facepalm) wikipedia! How didn´t think about it! You´re right, there are a lot of systems, and all seems to be based on percentages underneath. The 7 system doesn´t sound so strange now, seeing all the other fruits in the basket.
The bottom line for me at least is that Chilean educational problems have little to do with the grading system, but with the way teachers teach, students learn, and the way we process the information, repeating but not really thinking about it.
The fourth place football team getting the championship is other stuff, hahaha.
I guess we'll have to file this bizarre mystery under Unsolved. Even the great oracle that is Wikipedia (AKA Magic 9 Ball) cannot provide the answer.
Or should that be '8-ball'?
Listen Shark....I work with a Chilean who also thinks the "out of seven" grading system is ridiculous.....and it is.
The Alphabet system IS based on percentages....out of a hundred. (or ten)
I live in a neighbourhood where everytime there is a Colo Colo game, win or lose, people pretty much smash shit with reckless abandon. I am sorry, leaving as I am, that I will never get to see one of those retards who's forced a bus door open so he can hang out and throw empty beer bottles on the street before and after these games, lean out too far and take a light standard in the face.
With you all the way, Shark. Happy to join the parade of ineffectual frustrated rage.
Well that's just great. I've got to stay here and fight the great fight by myself. Thanks a bunch.
Of course, as you haven't provided a link to your blog/blog profile, the comment you left here and on two more of my posts(here & here) look suspiciously like I've created a 'fan' to agree with me.
You were accused of being me? Sorry about that!
Very interesting discussion (I'm sorry I can't say the same about your posts, Shark).
It's true that American grading system CAN be translated from percentages, but not always. Some universities (I know better the one that I attend in Californa, Stanford) don't use them most of the time (if at all). Engineering courses are graded with points (any number, not 0-10) depending on how hard the assignment and long a test is, and then points are just added and final grade is assigned relatively. Humanities uses letters directly. Then you translate that from 0-4 for GPA purposes.
I have no idea why in Chile people use the 1-7 system, but it doesn't seem to be more or less arbitrary than the American system. Maybe Shark or Canuck, who seem to by in love with the letter system, can explain "why the imbecilic system of letters and 0-4 is used here." Please don't say "it's percentages" because everything can be thought as percentages, that's just basic math. My intuition is (because I don't know the answer) that it's more idiosyncratic than systematic (if 10 is the number that makes more sense, why don't the French just go for it, since it's the "same").
Shark, you say:
1. "Of course having ten fingers has everything to do with it. That's why decimalisation is so prevalent in the world." Since you seem to like wikipedia, take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numeral_system
Oh, and by the way, the most prevalent system in the world is not decimal, but binary.
2."I know Chileans are way behind on the evolutionary path with regards to intelligence [...]" That's just nonsense. I have a recommendation for you: do some research in anthropology, cultural ecology, or any related field. You'll find your answer there. Maybe you can't start easy and read some general interest book like guns germs and steel or any other. If you're lazy, you can watch a DVD.
I hope you follow my recommendations and make your blog a real space for discussion and not just a spoiled kid that misses home tantrum.
As for soccer or sports fans, I don't really care.
Thanks for taking the time to write such a long response.
I'm sorry that you feel the need like many people to quote Wikipedia. I do read it quite often myself, mainly via links provided by the more cerebrally challenged among us. It can be a good point to broach a subject for the first time. However, I would never quote it, that's too embarrassing.
Maybe the binary system is the most prevalent in the world (computers et al.). I don't really care. I only said that decimalisation was so prevalent. Which reminds me, there are only 10 types of people in the world. Those that use binary and those who don't.
Despite the amount of cyberspace you have occupied, you still cannot provide a logical theory as to why a base 7 system is used which is, after all, the main gist of my post.
Your second recommendation is very interesting but I'm not looking for an explanation as to why Chileans are so far behind on the evolutionary path, I'm just happy to know that they are.
Bravo for you that your parents could afford to send you to Stanford.(Although name-dropping, especially on my blog, is not cool) It's a shame that you couldn't get what you needed at home.
Shark, you should really work on those assumptions skills of yours. It's funny that you assume I'm Chilean, I'm obviousness not native English speaker, but who said I was Chilean? And there's different ways to get a good education than parents paying for it (your should know better, self made shark).
I'm so sorry that you feel the need to insult your readers' intelligence that disagree with you. I understand, you're very insecure and need to do it to feel better and smarter yourself. Guess what, you look exactly as the opposite. Go on and read some wikipedia, it'll be good for you.
I don't care what you think it's cool or not in your blog, you're welcome to block me if you like, but you seem to be a narcissistic person that loves feedback.
You didn't give an answer as why you love so much the letter system, and why it's so logical and perfect to you.
Sorry, about seeming like a shill. I'll be more combative and contrary next time.
Weird that this thing about the grades is the most heated of all the discussions. At the end of the day, it's not really that important. I would have thought ranting about the crappy service staff, or picking on the knobs in the Metro would have been more contentious, really.
I think this is more a taste subject than a logic one.
"En cosas de gustos no hay nada escrito..."
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